# Was there ever a verse of stoning in the Quran, and does stoning still apply?

*The verse of rajm: Farahi's reading of the muharaba verse, and Mufti Abu Layth's view that stoning was condoned, not legislated*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/f2bcgwatu5g/s/19/
- Date: 2020-06-19 · Kind: question · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Dr. Shehzad Saleem | the Preservation of the Quran & the Problem of Qira'at | MindTrap with Mufti#26 (1:31:11–1:36:25)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2BcGWatU5g&t=5471s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/f2bcgwatu5g/

**Topics:** Hudud and punishments; Preservation and variant readings; Guest conversations

**Question as asked:** How do you explain the verse of rajm appearing in some hadith, where Umar and others felt it was a verse of the Quran?

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The guest says Umar's 'verse of rajm' refers to the muharaba verse 5:33, from which exemplary punishment including stoning derives, and that it still applies to extreme crimes under strict conditions. Mufti Abu Layth holds that the Prophet only condoned stoning from Jewish practice until the lashing verse, and that under Maliki scholars like al-Burzuli the hudud change with the age.

## Longer summary

A viewer asks how to explain the verse of rajm, which some hadith say Umar and others regarded as a verse of the Quran. The guest says Farahi offered a solution: rajm is based on the Quran though not found in it in those words, namely the muharaba verse of Surah al-Ma'idah, 5:33, whose first prescribed punishment, 'that they be killed' in an intensive form, means an exemplary killing for crimes such as rape, and stoning is one such exemplary killing; so Umar was referring to the derivation of rajm from that verse, not to a separate verse, and people mistook it for a 'verse of rajm' whose supposed wording about the old man and the old woman is not even Quranic Arabic. Asked by Mufti Abu Layth whether rajm was abrogated or continues, the guest says it is still there for extreme crimes as one form of exemplary punishment. Mufti sets out his own, somewhat different understanding: rajm was never introduced by the Prophet but, as the hadith in Sahih Muslim about the Jews shows, condoned from Jewish practice until the Quran's verse of lashing was revealed, and the proof is the verse giving married slaves half the punishment, since there is no half of stoning; he adds that in the Maliki school al-Burzuli [?] in the seventh and eighth centuries ruled that the Sharia itself mandated that the hudud change with the age, substituting financial penalties, which continued in north-west Africa, while in the east Suleiman al-Qanuni substituted other penalties, so for him these things change through trajectory hermeneutics. He says he is not sure whether Ghamidi holds the same or thinks the hudud should be suspended today. The guest says their view is that the punishments are still valid provided stringent conditions of proof are met, and that it is an error of interpretation to think rajm is only for married adulterers: it belongs to muharaba and spreading corruption, for the offender who deserves no leniency, a topic for another day.

## Sources and names cited

- Dr Shehzad Saleem (guest)
- rajm (stoning)
- Hamiduddin Farahi
- Quran 5:33 (the muharaba verse): https://quran.com/5/33
- muharaba (waging war on society)
- Umar ibn al-Khattab
- report: umar said i would write the verse of stoning if people would not say he added to the book of allah
- Sahih Muslim
- report: some jews came to the prophet and asked to be judged by the book
- Quran 24:2 (the verse of lashing): https://quran.com/24/2
- Quran 4:25 (married slave women receive half the punishment): https://quran.com/4/25
- al-Burzuli [?]
- punishments change to reflect their age (attributed to al-Burzuli) [?]
- hudud (prescribed punishments)
- Sultan Suleiman al-Qanuni (the Magnificent)
- trajectory hermeneutics
- maqasid al-shari'ah
- Javed Ahmad Ghamidi
- Maliki school

## Transcript (machine tier, 1:31:11–1:36:25)

[1:30:56] knocks out the the verse of rajim how do you how do you explain that coming in some of the hadith that said no Omar or other people felt it was a verse of the Quran what is your thoughts on this I think here again I've cited meeting thrice or he is actually presented a solution and you said that basically rajim is something which is based on the Quran although it's not exactly found in words in the Quran the surah surah - I think it's verse 33 or 34 which says in the ladina your heart even Allah have a rasullah of the

[1:31:34] famous maharba verse which says that people who indulge in maharba one of their of it prescribes for punishments for them and the first of them is a new path aloo algis and the second one is oh you sell Daboo so you cut aloo means to kill someone in an exemplary way and that of course Rajab is something in which you kill someone to make that person an example that it's something really bad for example you rape women or maybe rape children so one of the punishments of maharba is that so when the when oma desala anhu was talking about that regime worse he was not talking about a worse which mentioned rajim by name he

[1:32:13] was in all probability referring to the fact that this rajim the the worst of surah maidah on which the Prophet derived rajim is something which which is always there it was it was not something of a separate verse it was a derivative of that verse so Omar actually was referring to that and I have shown in my in that article which relates to its a chapel goal in completeness of the Quran in which the rajim words is discussed I have shown how this muhabba worse was the one which Omar was referring to and people mistook it for the regime worse or a shake over Shaffir - which of course is something which is not even in the Quran do you

[1:32:52] feel it was then abrogated or it still continues as an exam every a shaker wash a guy's not even it's Arabic no it's not not the verse the regime itself so it's there it's still there even today if you want exemplary punish someone for for these extreme crimes that they do but Allah means to kill someone in the same way and rajim is one form of that exemplary punishment is still there okay sure I mean just for people who I mean you know may be familiar with my views and I've explained it in the pasture slightly differently my understanding has been that rajim was never introduced by the Prophet but in

[1:33:32] the hadith in Sahih Muslim it's condoned from the Jewish practice when the Prophet says ok remove your hand and they they will what are you covering up about stoning now it was condoned until the verse of the Quran was revealed in my understanding that you know about lashing for the was there was a well now here and the proof I felt that the verses that follow after that when Allah speaks about the slaves he says that well Marcin a teen is phenomenal either that those who are married slaves will only get half the punishment and there's no such thing as half of stoning now

[1:34:11] that said in the Maliki method there were certain scholars in the seven eight hundreds especially a possible Buzzelli who was in northwest Africa and he was one of the Sheryl Islam's of his time now poor Julie's fatwa in line with the mal KEMA tub and makka seat is that sharia mandates that the ha dude change so he had at that point he caused a huge debate but he had actually substitute he said it wasn't him he was saying that the Sharia is mandating itself that because the day and age has changed all the her dude would change so they substituted them with financial penalties so there was him there was a

[1:34:50] there was quite a few of his kind of students as well and then this carried on in northwest Africa for a while in the East with Solomon opononi from the Ottomans who substituted the hadith with other penalties so my understanding was these things with trajectory hermeneutics do change but that just to and I would in the future at some point love to kind of because I'm not sure exactly what comedy subs a view is on on these things I've heard some of his clips but they're not I just haven't fully crossed if he's saying exactly what I'm saying or if he's saying that they should just be suspended today because they're not match up to the day and age I I'm not sure if you do want to comment or we want to leave that for

[1:35:29] another day we can for that because that would need some more detail of course we have a view regarding Islamic punishments I think they are still valid the only thing is there are certain conditions would need to be meet and we need to be met and these are ultimate forms of proof and as far as regime is concerned it is absolutely erroneously understood that it's just meant for married adulterers that is something which is a error of interpretation that has resulted Rajyam is meant for a lot of things which relate to maharaja and facade kill argh and one form is that a person does not I mean deserve any leniency when he commits this act so people thought that rajim is meant for only adult adulterers

[1:36:09] who are married and here we actually have a different approach other than that as far as all the hurdles are concerned we have a specific view and if you would like to talk about it that would be a whole topic but yeah that's absolutely amazing a quick another question going back to the topic by Joe Bloggs Salaam how much importance do you give to the Senate of how FAR's which trace back to the Prophet I is not from someone who memorized from someone so you know in the Quran they also have this Senate as well like an ijazah how much importance and Joe is asking do

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment f2BcGWatU5g/s/19. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/f2bcgwatu5g/s/19/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.