# Why does the Quran seem focused on men, and why are two women witnesses needed? *Is the Quran centred on men? Women witnesses, male address and patriarchy* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/eokcnwggiba/s/6/ - Date: 2021-01-26 · Kind: question · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti #199 | Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted! 😉 | Mufti Abu Layth (21:34–30:45) - Status: general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoKcNwGGIBA&t=1294s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/eokcnwggiba/ **Topics:** Women in Islam; Contested verses; Human origins **Question as asked:** Why is the Quran so centred on men and not women, for example needing four women as witnesses? **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The Quran asks for two women witnesses only for debt contracts, because a lone woman was easier to intimidate, not because women are lesser; otherwise one woman equals one man, and the masculine address reflects historically patriarchal societies. **Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says the Quran's requirement of two women witnesses applies only to debt transactions, because a lone woman was easier to intimidate, and not because women are deficient, and that otherwise one woman's testimony equals one man's. **Evidence, his words at 23:18:** “hence if there were two women it would complicate that process a bit so that's um and that so it's only to do with that otherwise one woman is equivalent to one man” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoKcNwGGIBA&t=1398s) ## Longer summary A questioner relays the question why the Quran is so centred on men and not women, for example in needing four women as witnesses. Mufti Abu Layth says the Quran does not ask for four women: it speaks of two women witnesses for debts written while travelling, not because women are deficient but, as he explains in another video and as another explanation [?] he cites also says, because in those unstable circumstances a single woman was easier to intimidate than a man, so a second complicates intimidation; otherwise one woman equals one man, as the hadith says that women are the counterparts of men. He says the Quran's usual address in the masculine reflects humanity rather than Islam, since most human societies have been patriarchal in the neutral sense that leaders were mostly men. He calls the reason an interesting anthropological question and contrasts patriarchal and violent chimpanzees with matriarchal, peaceable bonobos, citing the primatologist Frans de Waal, before saying he does not know why he digressed onto bonobos. ## Sources and names cited - Quran 2:282 (two women witnesses for a debt, so that if one errs the other reminds her): https://quran.com/2/282 - report: women are the counterparts of men (unresolved; collection not stated) - Frans de Waal ## Transcript (machine tier, 21:34–30:45) [20:52] for the future you know saying don't worry in [Laughter] we future you so they were preparing it and accidentally [Laughter] somebody said oh very long day i go wet market what happened i flick myself with the blick not to worry it's not dangerous [Laughter] it's 20 yeah my year [21:31] yeah yeah 2020. then next thing you know oh the world's locked down right so that's uh pretty much i think how it happened so people what is going on spectrum asks a question he says mufti my older sister has always asked why the quran is so centered on men and not women for example four women are needed to [22:09] witness if something happened if something's happened has it happened has the guy gone as he got oh bloody hell just one of you can you get three more please i need to know whether what time is it can there be four of you please [Laughter] okay so first of all speaking of disinformation the quran doesn't say four people uh four women need to if anything's happened um it speaks of two witnesses two females when it came to female female when it came to transactions [22:49] and writing about money that was being given as a debt whilst traveling so unstable circumstances and money is being given and i've got a video explaining that and it doesn't say because they uh you know something that they lack something or that they're stupid or silly or you know unreliable it doesn't say that it says that should one get misguided [23:18] and that is sophian's kind of explanation as well that you see it's because money and i've got a video explaining it money um it was very likely that people may renege on their kind of promises they may intimidate witnesses and it was easier in those societies far easier to intimidate a single woman than it would be to intimidate a man a single man now hence if there were two women it would complicate that process a bit so that's um and that so it's only to do with that otherwise one woman [23:57] is equivalent to one man it's not any different as the hadith says in that women are the counter equaled to men but the other things i think are different you know things like um um you know right so the quranic um kind of discourse or it's hitab it's its nature of addressing is usually to the male pronoun and that [24:45] right whoa kind of disappeared there for a moment that's not uh islam that's humanity humanity has really kind historically um for most of humanity that has ever existed it has been patriarchal in the sense you see nowadays people use patriarchal to mean obviously that a uh like malicious i don't mean it in that sense i mean just neutrally as in the it was the the leaders were generally men [25:24] um not always but for the most part now that's actually anthropologically that's an interesting question why is it like that why has i regardless of religion we're talking from you know neanderthals and when they were coexisting with homo sapiens right down to to now for the most part of the world men have dominated in society now a question is why it and it's not actually you know what at first sight it seems like it's an easy question [26:02] say well easy you know it's duh but it's actually not because when you look at primate behavior monkeys um now it's many primates are also kind of uh male centered in that sense matriarch sorry patriarchal but some uh are matriarchal so you will find um um in in the case of [26:33] ah bloody hell i'm having a brain freeze what's the uh bonobo in the case of bonobo monkeys uh you will find that they are actually matriarchal and even if the men are bigger than sorry men males are bigger than the females but when they try to bully them like let's say the male tries to bully two three of the females will get together and they just beat up the mail but then bonobos are not really violent either so it's interesting you know because bonobo [27:12] are as close to homo sapiens um as chimpanzees right so what is it about um what is it about 97 point something but and they both at a similar kind of distance but differently and the question is are sapiens more towards bonobo more towards chimpanzees because chimpanzees i know you know chimpanzees kind of they look you know when you see them in movies or you see things they look kind of cute yeah you know oh this is kind of monkey they're so clever you know it does all these things and it's kind of cute and sometimes they dress them up or [27:52] uh but they are actually vicious creatures they are not like cute you're they literally rip each other to pieces and they they're so violent and aggressive you know if they come in contact with somebody that's a non-tribe member they they will literally do things like gorge the eyes out jump on stamp on the the other primates face keep stamping until they kill it and they're very and they will get the young and rip the head off the young you know they're very violent it's not [28:31] it's weird because you know you kind of grow up with this you know that chimp is like a cute oh it's like a you think yeah i wouldn't mind that as a pet a little chimp walking around but it's not that they're actually very vicious in their natural habitat whereas bonobos are kind of like the uh librarian version of them they're very um not aggressive um they're very relaxed they're matriarchal they they're very intelligent emotionally very intelligent as well uh they're hypersexual hyper [29:09] like i mean um you know the ill casual practices are three four times a day they're very and they and that's one of their practices to always spread peace so they've done experiment you should read actually franz uh franz uh franz de waal and his studies on he's a primatologist for many decades and whenever they kind of unleash these primates so if they have a chimpanzee and they unleash a new group it's war instant war you know if they encroach on their territory it is war a declaration of war but bonobos [29:49] when they come encounter they'll kind of just be a bit freaked out like not for like they'll be a bit hesitant and they'll kind of come closer and then they'll just kind of like pet each other and and then they'll just have this one big kind of orgy i'm not joking and and then they're just all cool it's like yeah and they're just good so the question is that which ones are humans more kind of in line with in terms of uh personality traits well well that's the question [30:28] anyway i don't know why i digressed onto bonobos so people what is going on mufti any more plans to make more muftis like your type go by rationality and reasoning like an academy islamic world needs more like you shukran shukran much appreciated i dearly appreciate your um because that in itself is a you know it's an acknowledgement so right i explained previously may have been last week why i don't really see myself going into something like an academy ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment eoKcNwGGIBA/s/6. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/eokcnwggiba/s/6/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.