# Does Ibn Hazm contradict himself in The Ring of the Dove? *Does Ibn Hazm contradict himself in The Ring of the Dove? A book on love* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/b1ooltqtptw/s/6/ - Date: 2021-03-02 · Kind: question · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti #204 | Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted! 😉 | Mufti Abu Layth (28:09–37:14) - Status: latest answer on its topic; general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1OOltqtPTw&t=1689s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/b1ooltqtptw/ **Topics:** Love stories from history; Scholars and imams of the past; Arabic poetry and men of letters **Question as asked:** Does Ibn Hazm contradict himself in The Ring of the Dove? **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth knows of no contradiction; he describes The Ring of the Dove as Ibn Hazm's mature study of the psychology of love and retells one of its bawdy stories. ## Longer summary A viewer asks whether Ibn Hazm contradicts himself in The Ring of the Dove; Mufti Abu Layth says he does not know what is meant. He describes the book as a treatise psychologising love, written some nine hundred years ago before psychology existed, on love at first sight, obsession, the stages of love and sex, including stories of relations inside and outside wedlock and of same-sex love, which he finds surprising from a great hafiz of hadith. He notes that Ibn Hazm says in his introduction that he had long passed forty, so the book is not a folly of youth. He then retells at length, with jokes, a bawdy story he recalls from the book about a sailor on a ship to Hajj who approached sleeping women at night, and a pious woman who readied a blade for him but gave in when her turn came. He ends by calling the book fascinating and saying he is not sure how Ibn Hazm contradicts himself. ## Sources and names cited - Ibn Hazm - Tawq al-Hamama (The Ring of the Dove) - Hajj ## Transcript (machine tier, 28:09–37:14) [28:09] mufti does ibn hasan contradict himself in the ring of the dove contradict himself in what sense um what does i don't know what contradict himself means you know the ring of the dove or the the kind of tale of the dove or whatever however you wanna it's arabic is a book on psychologizing love and it's interesting because obviously it's a very pro total psychology because psychology hadn't emerged yet so it's about [28:48] a thousand years old a book 900 years old plus um it's all about love the emotion of love uh is there such thing as love at first sight what happens with obsession in love and the stages of love the stages of obsession sex sex homo erotic love um which is quite shocking actually because you think you know here is this great halfway of hadith you know and he and he says he's over 40 so he would have been at least my age or above because he says [29:27] i've passed surpassed long surpassed the age of 40. he says in his introduction uh so and he says that so you understand that he's not writing this book out of the kind of follies of youth it's not youth people though says you know in these two words is wrapped or hidden my entire story though [30:09] [Laughter] he says that you know in these two words one is love and the other is youth being younger so this uh ibn hassan and then he speaks all about stories about the sex and whether you know when people were doing it inside wedlock outside wedlock homo uh lesbians um very very uh interesting stories in the [30:45] also about uh according to one of the stories that size matters people according to one of the stories i know but then gives us believers hope by saying don't worry people that is big so take a ticket so there's a story that ibn hasan brings in there where there's a lady that's uh i believe it's in that book but in case but the story as i recall it [31:24] she's uh she's a proper pious lady pious you know the pious one he was silent but violent [Laughter] so she uh doesn't really um uh you know doesn't one does not dabble in the in this you know the very pious so they're going on i think they're going on hajj or they're going they're on a journey i'm pretty sure it's hajj yeah it is hajj as far as i recall it and obviously on boats ships you know this took weeks sometimes months back in the days [32:04] so there happens to be this sailor peoples seller seller people seller so there's this sailor and what the sailor does is at night when everybody's on deck and the women have taken their position sleeping positions sleeping position so the sailor would come now in the depths of night hajjut time [Laughter] it come at the depths of night when everybody's asleep and [32:43] he'd go to a particular woman like you choose one and go to her and you know he'd kind of like just get close to a tapper she would probably wake up obviously and what he used to do according to the story of al-hafiz what he would do is he would place his his noble organ [Laughter] you know why because it's not from the nobility to touch it yourself so he would place it in the hand of [33:23] of the the tonight's chosen guest and her and a woman and the woman that he would do this to would not be able to resist and they would begin on this mini journey within their journey so there's motion in the ocean people motion in the ocean so this would be happening so there's this one lady the pious one the pious one she wakes up one night and realizes ah [34:01] on my board right so then she realizes the next night he's doing this with with the other huh domino effect one by one he's coming along so she realizes you know what tuesday wednesday thursday then it's going to be my turn my turn the swahili so what she does is she gets hold of a blade [34:40] why do people resort to violence peace loving people we are we're peace loving people in this dunya why insaah you know as gandhi would go on about non-violent man the non-violence but she she got hold of a a moosa they call it a musa as well a blade so she gets hold of this blade and she keeps it in her hand thinking you know what when he if he does if he places the noble organ in my hand then watch watch what i do i'm gonna slice it up [35:24] it's on situations like this that we remind people allah is watching allah is watching [Laughter] so so what happens is as as the days revolve her turn emerges so the sailor comes in more than one meaning of the word and then he knock knock hello hello huh what is it wrong number right no right [36:02] right number wrong door number next door so so when he she awakens the sailor places it in her hand now the noble organ is in the hand people and she's got the blade in the other hand and the music the jaws music is going on in the background but she becomes so enamored apparently by the [36:33] that she drops the blade and says and she also then becomes part of the motion in the ocean people so that's a story that even has them transmits in this book obviously she's on her way to hajj we don't get these kind of services on route to hajj but times chandra times man and the times because so anyway let's uh so that's that's part of what so it's very fascinating books i'm not sure how he contradicts himself [37:13] but uh it's definitely interesting right now what is going on people what is going on somebody said can you explain the akhenaten and moses theory uh right so the akhenaten theory i've already you know i've got a clip i put it up recently where somebody challenges uh on the meet up and we have a bit of a discussion so do check that out i go into it i am inclined towards the the theory that moses is was a canarton uh but ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment b1OOltqtPTw/s/6. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/b1ooltqtptw/s/6/ 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