# What was al-Ash'ari's argument against the Mu'tazila about God always doing what is best?

*Al-Ash'ari's three-person argument against the Mu'tazila*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/a6h5lye4mn8/s/11/
- Date: 2020-07-14 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti Abu Layth 173 (49:45–52:19)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6H5lYE4MN8&t=2985s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/a6h5lye4mn8/

**Topics:** Creed and the schools of theology; Free will and destiny; Salvation and non-Muslims

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth tells the debate attributed to al-Ash'ari, in which a disbeliever asks why he was not allowed to die as a child, and says this is where the Mu'tazili view of a God bound to do the best crumbles.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says the paradox in the debate attributed to al-Ash'ari is where the Mu'tazili view that God is bound to act by a fixed rule crumbles.

**Evidence, his words at 51:39:** “in the afterlife and it and this kind of paradox is where the Methuselah kind of thing crumbles” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6H5lYE4MN8&t=3099s)

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth recounts the hypothetical debate attributed to Abu al-Hasan al-Ash'ari with a Mu'tazili scholar. On the day of judgement a believer who lived a long life, a disbeliever, and a child who died young question God; on the Mu'tazili view that God must reward and punish by fixed rules, the believer and the child go to paradise and the disbeliever to hell. Asked why the child gets less, the Mu'tazili answers that the believer worshipped more; when the child objects that he died young, God is made to answer that He let him die because he would have sinned, perhaps even become a disbeliever. Al-Ash'ari then has the disbeliever ask why he too was not given death as a child; Mufti says this paradox is where the Mu'tazili position crumbles. He then reads a super chat.

## Sources and names cited

- Abu al-Hasan al-Ash'ari
- Mu'tazila
- Ash'ari

## Transcript (machine tier, 49:45–52:19)

[49:06] them and they and they were great thinkers but some of their views were just a bit warped that's all so sometimes Inka chefs have seed it has some of the oddities early yet he's kind of at his early Creed where he will say you know this thing's supporting if you I I assume his does support as well that if you commit a sin you're no longer a Muslim that's one of the main Creed's of the Methuselah but also other things as well that God is mandated to always do it's good and you know and and this and

[49:45] this was the debate by the way that they attribute to abu al-hasan al-ash'ari that way he said to he had a hypothetical scenario with one of the martyrs early scholars and he said to him that look about three people that questioned God on the day of judgment so one is a believer who lives a natural life and dies and one is a Kaffir and one is a child so a kafir child so and

[50:24] he says that what will God do with these people so the MARTA Zillah kind of point of view is the one because god is mandated to act accordingly like he can't act outside of the algorithm the algorithm is if you knew good you must be rewarded if you do this you must be punished it you can't act outside of that so he said well that simple the the Muslim will go to paradise because God has to reward him and he'll get his reward the child well because he's a child he'll be forgiven he can't be taken to account he'll go to paradise and the kaffir will go to hell so he

[51:03] says well okay so the child who goes to paradise he being the same kind of luxury and amenities and the kind of qualitative state as the believer who goes to paradise so the MARTA silly response was well no no because the believer has worshipped so he God is mandated to give him a higher reward so he says yeah but the child could say well that's not my fault because I died as a child I didn't have that much time and this person had so

[51:39] much more time so that's not my fault so he says yes but God would say yeah because I know better and if you were to live you would have actually committed so many sins so I gave you death and in fact you may have even become a car filled and therefore I gave you death to save you and give you Jenna so then the I shaadi response was that at that stage the kaffir will then ask ah in that case why didn't you grant me death as a child and they buy grant me Jenna in the afterlife and it and this

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment a6H5lYE4MN8/s/11. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/a6h5lye4mn8/s/11/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.