# Did Rumi use harmala seed and a DMT-containing reed flute? *Harmala seed, DMT and Rumi's ney: an entheogenic reading of the Mathnawi* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/7skyphqzdy8/s/4/ - Date: 2020-10-17 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Psychedelics are NOT haram | Mufti Abu Layth (11:41–18:24) - Status: latest answer on its topic; general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SkyPhQZdY8&t=701s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/7skyphqzdy8/ **Topics:** Spiritual experience and psychedelics; Persian and Sufi poetry; Psychedelics **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Rumi drank preparations of harmala seed, an MAO inhibitor, and was devoted to his ney flute, made from a reed that contains DMT; Mufti Abu Layth says it is very likely Rumi had psychedelic experiences. **Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says it is very likely that Rumi had psychedelic experiences, pointing to Mathnawi passages that mention the harmala seed, an MAO inhibitor, and to Rumi's constant addressing of his ney, a flute made from a reed that contains DMT. **Evidence, his words at 17:10:** “So I actually do feel that you see this is something that it's very likely that he would have had this psychedelic experience uh just like many other people” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SkyPhQZdY8&t=1030s) ## Longer summary Amid trouble with his screen, Mufti Abu Layth presents Peganum harmala, the harmala or Syrian rue seed widespread in the Middle East, and explains that it is an MAO inhibitor: the body's monoamine oxidase enzymes would otherwise kill off ingested DMT, the spirit molecule, for which humans naturally have receptors and which studies have found in animals and possibly in the pineal gland. He then introduces Arundo donax, the giant reed from which the ney flute is made, and shows that it contains DMT and was traditionally used to make flutes. He notes that Rumi constantly addresses his ney, and reads a translation of a Mathnawi passage in which the harmala seed covers the darkness and the truth is seen, and another in which a shaykh says his cup is so full that not a single harmala seed could fit in it. He says it is very likely that Rumi had psychedelic experiences, and adds that historians such as Ibn al-Awwam [?] record harmala being used in bread in Spain as one of its classical uses. ## Sources and names cited - harmala (Peganum harmala, Syrian rue) - DMT (dimethyltryptamine) - MAO inhibitor - ney (reed flute) - Rumi - Mathnawi of Rumi - Ibn al-Awwam [?] ## Transcript (machine tier, 11:41–18:24) [11:35] If I can just if I can just bring this up people, show you this. This what you can see uh peanum seed in Arabic is called the Harmala. Now this is something that is very widespread in um uh in the Middle East and it's it's called Syrian um you'll have it's actually this harla comes from the especially predominant in Syria and other parts of the Middle East. [12:07] Uh its actual name I'm trying to bring this up here on momento. This is really annoying me today. [laughter] Right. What is going on, people? All right. All right. No, just isn't doing it for me. I'm getting right. Okay, that's better. [12:33] [snorts] Um, let me just this pagan seed that you had many people were using uh this in history especially in the Middle East. Now, what this does, that's better. Right now, ah no, not again. [12:59] Right. So, you won't be able to see this very clearly. I was hoping it would come up much larger, but that's the history of this paganum seed. Now, this is actually a MAU inhibitor. Okay. So what that does, what that means for those of you who are not familiar with it [snorts] is we have these monoamine uh oxidase uh enzymes within our within us naturally within our gut and within us. [13:26] Now these things if you were to consume um some DMT let's say what would happen a dimethylryptoamine which is the spirit molecule why is this not it's really getting annoying now right so um I'm trying to bring this up right you will what will happen is these MAU inhibitors will inhibit it. [13:59] So if a person ingested DMT it would be killed off. [snorts] The interesting thing is our body naturally has these receptors and you question well how does that work then because how does our body naturally have these receptors and studies have been done that have shown um if you take a look at this this will show that uh DMT being found in animals so like rabbit where it's being found in rats now there are uh assumptions that it is naturally produced within humans. [14:36] There's studies about whether it's it's found traces of it in the pineal gland or other parts. And where is this coming from? But it is something that we have the receptors for. Now what this harmonad this particular seed does is it it is a mau inhibitor. So it will once you consume that what happens is it blocks that enzyme. [15:04] So you say well okay and why is that special? Well you see then I bring your attention to something like this arundo donx. Okay, now you say, "Well, Muy, what the hell is Arundo Donax?" [laughter] [gasps] Right now, those of you that uh don't know, let me people like Roomie often when he speaks, he often addresses his uh his flute, right? [15:40] He often calls it nay. And he and he speaks by addressing and he's talking to his uh um to his flute. Now the flute is made out of arundo donacs. Now arundo donax as you can see is these giant reads and you can see there it contains DMT. It contains DMT. Now you can see that right there and you can take a look here. [16:06] Look what are some of the traditional usages of Arundo Donax. Here it is that it was used often to as you can see there as well to to create flute. You can see flutes and instruments were made with it. So this right now I'm going to bring up in front of you uh and it this is a translation of one of Room's poems where he is speaking about that the seed the paganum seed which is the harla seed uh it covered the [16:44] darkness and the truth was seen uh this is in his uh mathnowi you will see there's Uh, another one as well that's quite interesting. Let me bring this one up. This somebody had sent it to me with the uh with the reference as well. Didn't you say uh the translation that the devil urinates in the wine cup right away? [17:10] The sheh said, "My cup is filled so that not a single pegum seed could fit into it." Now what he does is most of his many of his gazels are addressing this uh the nay which is his flute. So I actually do feel that you see this is something that it's very likely that he would have had this psychedelic experience uh just like many other people and I want to if I can just bring up here this is interesting as well [17:48] um you will see that many historians when they spoke about um this harm They mentioned what its uses were and you can see that Awam speaks about uh it in Spain that it was used in bread often that's amongst one of the classical usage uh for that particular seed the paganum seed and just the the traditional you know the traditional kind of approach to all of this you have to remember something people in the past ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment 7SkyPhQZdY8/s/4. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/7skyphqzdy8/s/4/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.