# Did scholars let slave women uncover more than free women? *Modesty out of the window: slave women's dress and the navel-to-knee awrah* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/49_s1ud7utk/s/2/ - Date: 2021-05-09 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Hypocrisy of scholars regarding awrah of free women & slave women | Mufti Abu Layth (7:04–12:02) - Status: general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49_S1uD7UTk&t=424s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/49_s1ud7utk/ **Topics:** Hijab and niqab; Women in Islam **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth says the scholars dropped their concern for modesty when it came to slave women, and calls the claim that nobody would desire them nonsense. He thinks slave women probably wore working clothes, with arms and lower legs uncovered, rather than walking about topless. **Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says the claim in the books that nobody would desire a slave girl is the biggest nonsense, since men would of course desire them. **Evidence, his words at 8:21:** “and the most the biggest bs is people say in the books oh yeah but it's okay she's a slave girl who who would desire her” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49_S1uD7UTk&t=501s) ## Longer summary Mufti Abu Layth says that with slave girls the scholars' discussion of modesty goes out of the window: the same scholars who demanded that a free woman be fully covered, some Hanbali fatwas even saying one eye is enough to see with, showed no concern to cover slave women. He calls the claim in the books that nobody would desire a slave girl the biggest nonsense, since men are hardwired to desire them. He thinks it an exaggeration that slave women walked about topless, and suggests they probably wore working attire with the arms and lower legs uncovered and some cleavage showing, rather than headscarves and veils, which the scholars accepted. He mocks the ruling that the navel to the knee was the absolute limit, asking why the kneecap should be forbidden when the breasts were not, notes that there is a difference of opinion, and says the topic of the amah is one many people today are stuck trying to explain. ## Sources and names cited - 'awrah - amah (slave woman) - Hanbali - fitnah - ikhtilaf (difference of opinion) ## Transcript (machine tier, 7:04–12:02) [6:24] and when they do try to look at hasanat he tried to pull it off with his with um abdullah and his his other what was it sister sarah sister what a disco i mean how can you i don't know how people can call the i don't know how you could call any woman sister that isn't your actual sister but chella that's a different discussion but calling your wife sister that's a nutty game going on there but uh so people can't pull off polygamy and in the past they managed to pull off slave girls and they did it not only confidently [7:04] but they said it's a religious act and they do it loud and proud and that ladies and gentlemen is the power of religion [Laughter] so yeah i mean and the thing that they said about so the question that was being but i always think that one of the fascinating things about slave girls is as well is that the discussion of modesty goes completely out the window so all of a sudden these scholars don't seem to care about you know that a woman must be covered up and she must [7:42] be a ninja and she must be like this and owning her eyes and even her eyes are a fitnah you know some humbly fatwa said just cover one eye one eye is enough to see the world of god damn it so you got some bicharia i'm like trying to be religious and they're just looking at things like a pirate [Laughter] but this is the unfortunate to that extent people went that oh my god you know women oh you know you can't look at women you can't do this oh my god are you looking at my women god god don't look at them [8:21] but yet when it came to slave girls everything went out the window so there was no discussion of covering them up in fact they could walk they could technically walk around topless i don't i don't think they definitely they did walk around i don't think they did i think that's an exaggeration because men are men you know and the most the biggest bs is people say in the books oh yeah but it's okay she's a slave girl who who would desire her and you're thinking and every every guy reading the book is like yeah [9:01] who a desire that's the biggest black are you mad of course they would desire them why wouldn't they desire that men are hardwired that way they they cannot think differently okay it's impossible for men to think differently so much from millions of years evolution [9:33] [Laughter] how are we gonna get the break so suddenly it's not gonna think about it it doesn't work like that the the mail especially on visual perception this not too much you know this one too much so you can see that that definitely wasn't true and they seemed to say yeah the girl i think generally they didn't walk walk around couples and things but i think they didn't uh they probably walked around in kind of working clothes gear so for example they [10:11] they probably their arms were uncovered maybe the lower part of their legs were uncovered like working attire so if you're working cleaning things doing all that kind of stuff and obviously with that cleavage would have been showing so they won't have walked around with a kind of because you gotta remember in the past they just had like a like a hole to stick your head in don't take that out of context right out in the cloth and they would have just obviously had a veil to put around here like a dupatta kind of thing so these women that were working wouldn't have been wearing the birthday and doing things like that wearing headscarves and veils [10:51] so they would just be working so that kind of stuff would be showing now so hence they the scholar said yeah it's fine it's fine and for some reason the absolute no-no was the navel to the knee and you think kneecaps i don't know what kind of sick games those scholars why is the the kneecap a no-no [Laughter] [Music] so the scholars were like yeah you can see their breasts but kneecaps [11:27] have some fear of god why would you see their kneecap full it's like what kneecap but the kneecap is apparently the part of the aura that they're not meant to be uncovering and according to some i know there's the isthalav but anyway it's always a fruitful discussion bringing in the the ima and the slave girls and it's something which i think today a lot of people are then stuck in trying to explain right let ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment 49_S1uD7UTk/s/2. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/49_s1ud7utk/s/2/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.