# Is the hadith 'if there were a prophet after me it would be Umar' authentic?

*'If there were a prophet after me it would be Umar': a fabricated hadith*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/1zghntbmpis/s/41/
- Date: 2021-01-12 · Kind: question · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti #197 | Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted! 😉 | Mufti Abu Layth (2:56:34–3:02:00)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zgHntbMPis&t=10594s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/1zghntbmpis/

**Topics:** False and fabricated hadith; The companions

**Question as asked:** One hadith says the Prophet said if there was a prophet after me it would be Umar. For some reason my mind wrestles with this; the Prophet should know the Quran better than the companions.

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth says the hadith is a fabrication, made up to glorify Umar; one may revere Umar and still disagree with his opinions.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says the hadith 'if there were a prophet after me it would be Umar' is not an established hadith from the Prophet but a fabrication.

**Evidence, his words at 3:01:30:** “so just to explain that this hadith is not an established hadith from the prophet sallam is a fabrication” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zgHntbMPis&t=10890s)

## Longer summary

Turning to the question about the hadith 'if there were a prophet after me it would be Umar', Mufti Abu Layth shows the report in al-Tirmidhi and its variants, and says all the narrations go back to Mishrah ibn Ha'an [?]. He says the hadith is not sahih and, though popular, is nonsensical, and that he thinks it was made up retrospectively to glorify Umar ibn al-Khattab. He says Imam Ahmad, though he transmits it, was asked about it, that a supporting report cited by al-Tabarani has a problematic chain, and that a version attributed to Bilal [?] is the same hadith with its chain glossed over, while Ibn al-Jawzi [?] calls it fabricated. He says over-glorifying someone is not itself the problem; the problem is coercing people to follow only Umar's opinions, since the deen is from the Prophet and the companions themselves disagreed with Umar.

## Sources and names cited

- report: if there were a prophet after me it would be umar
- Umar ibn al-Khattab
- Sunan al-Tirmidhi
- Mishrah ibn Ha'an [?]
- Ahmad ibn Hanbal
- al-Tabarani
- Ibn al-Jawzi [?]

## Transcript (machine tier, 2:56:34–3:02:00)

[2:55:54] what we do know as a fact is that people state of mind is altered okay now yes in solitude breathing sometimes helps that you can control it but um sometimes being in that kind of reflective platform gives you that but it doesn't have to be the hatred you don't have to think that was just encouraged in light with that lifestyle if your lifestyle is different and something else works for you that's fine as well you have to remember for that arab lifestyle that worked it may not work for people today if you need to wake up at six a.m for work you know

[2:56:33] waking up at three wouldn't would just ruin that for them so you don't need to feel that that's a problem okay as to uh the question on um um here is the hadith this is uh one of the hadiths this is in termiti there is a there's other kind of variants to it as well in the muslin

[2:57:02] you you do see that let me just try and see if i can find the other variant as well it's not much different but it brings the same kind of thing uh it's mentioning that that look the prophet is saying lokanam now this is transmitted in i think in dharmi as well all of these narrations come from as you can see they have highlighted in mishra now they all tend to go back to him from now uh

[2:57:42] sorry let me just bring this up all right yes so yes they all are restricted to mishra ibn who from transmits this from the prophet the truth is this hadith is not sahih okay even though it's incredibly popularized it is in in all honesty nonsensical like it's not i mean i suppose you could explain it away if you wanted to you could kind of say no you know it meant in in like this and that and but really i think that this hadith was just made up retrospectively by certain

[2:58:21] people to kind of uh glorify omar ibn khattab radhillah so you've got uh in this hadith as well when when imam let me just bring this up imam ahmad was asked about this even though he transmits it in his hadith he was asked what do you say about this

[2:58:57] the problem is this mishra and this is also from akbar that he transmits problematic things from ahmad that's exactly who he's transmitting from here and that's in the tadiba as well and and this is once again just really what is just coming from him um now some people have said there is a shahid for it from the hadith of ishmael which tabrani mentions but that is problematic in his hadith in its chain as fodlib

[2:59:35] who whose hadith are also [Laughter] you had this bill about um now i was going to mention is there anything here now what's interesting is some people say there's another version of this hadith by bilal this is from bilal but with this is not we don't really know it this is really the same hadith from

[3:00:14] that somebody has kind of tried to paint over gloss over the chain change it and represent it again uh represent it again and and really it's the same hadith and and ignore josie speaking about it as well says so this hadith uh is it's fabricated it was probably you know somebody trying to be speak very kindly of um but sometimes it is true that we have over

[3:00:50] glorified um you know is that is that a problem over glorifying i don't think per se you know if you like someone you over glorify them is a problem the problem might be then when you coerce people to only follow a particular opinion that say omar may have chosen that may is where the problem emerges okay so if you say oh but say omar did this so now you can't disagree well you're like well you know as obviously we revere said um but ultimately the deen is from the prophet sallallahu alaihi

[3:01:30] and it doesn't mean that we have a better understanding of omar but that we can disagree remember the companions disagreed with him we might in some opinions align ourselves with other companions so it doesn't mean that okay so just to explain that this hadith is not an established hadith from the prophet sallam is a fabrication

[3:01:59] in the chain as you've all seen is really at the crux of the issue cool i hope that helps let's move on people we've been going on way too long gotta wrap this up uh but before we do people i've got to uh come back to our below it our beloved people those of you that remember the below it would also remember that you would remember that a while back hour below it uh he went on this

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment 1zgHntbMPis/s/41. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/1zghntbmpis/s/41/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.